Seed Savers

Oh my god. I've been signed up at the seedsavers.org forum/website for all of, like, a week, and I've already learned more about growing veg and saving seeds than I ever thought I wanted to know.

#1: We started the seeds way, way too late. I imagine that with some vigilance and care, most of the plants will survive. I'm really thinking that next year I'll want to start the seeds much, much sooner than late May. This is nuts.

#2: Root veg row distances can probably be ignored, as long as you pay attention to the nutrients and watering of the soil, and particularly when growing them in a container.

#3: Hypothetically you can grow most veg (except roots) in haybales of all things. If there's a lot of trouble with parasites attacking the roots, this might not be a bad way to go. Someone has a couple of pictures posted of their experiment. If it works I may have to give that a try next year (they're trying it with tomatoes).

#4: You can grow your own dry beans. You'd think this would be obvious, but not so much with my steel-sieve brain. I may have to add this to the list of other stuff to grow!

I don't want to ask a hundred questions right away, for fear that I could learn more over time and by poking around more on the 'net. I'm liking the community there so far, and I'd rather not irritate folks by flooding the forums with threads about X, Y, and Z. Maybe I'll find another forum to poke at that I don't care as much about?

Cross-pollination from species to species -- in a large-scale garden it might be feasible to separate varieties of a particular veg by several hundred yards. In what will be essentially a home garden, should I worry overmuch about keeping distances between varieties? Next year, I might be in a better position to distance crops a bit better, but this year the garden's going to be packed in pretty darn tight. Should I bother saving seeds if I can't be sure the lines have stayed pure? What could I do now, barring enclosing the entire garden off?

If I do end up crossing a few varieties, I'd feel guilty sending seeds off to someone else claiming them to be something specific. If my jalapenos got crossed with the banana peppers, would I even want to save them just for personal use??

I know I started my garden way late for the season. Everyone else on various forii have been talking about how their plants are getting so tall, and some of them already have flowers! I realize any crops I grow are going to be 'late' at this point ... what can I do to ensure their survival?

I saved some seeds from store-bought peppers in specific, and I've planted a few this year. Should I keep these seeds and continue growing them, or instead find seeds from one of the heirloom companies (or trade) to grow next year -- particularly if I have the space to separate varieties and make sure they don't cross with others?

I may remember other ideas later on, once I've gotten actual sleep and possibly after I've taken a look at a few things. There are a couple of books that I'm really getting interested in that I may have to pick up when we're at a store (or at the least look at, and then buy on Amazon) that will probably answer a few of my questions and open up just as many.

Plants, alphabetically

The seeds and plants that I want to grow, with notes on how I want to plant, use, and save them:

Basil, Genovese: (Ferry-Morse) '06 (eek). Annual plant. These seeds are very old, so even though I still have a bunch left I may not keep them. I haven't figured it out yet. Basil helps tomatoes grow better, and it smells fantastic as well.

Basil, sweet: (Ferry-Morse) '09. I'm not sure the difference in variety from the Genovese, but the same principle applies. I haven't even opened this packet yet, and I'll save it for next year.

Basil, lemon/lime mix: (Burpee) '09. I didn't realize at first there were two varieties, and only planted one for this year. We'll see which one comes up! Since they're this year's seeds, I can save the rest for next year and grow one of each to see how each of them tastes.

Beans, garden bush Blue Lake 274: (Ferry-Morse) '07. Green beans are so very useful in just about everything. They can be frozen for later use, and they should produce fairly well. I've got plenty seed left after planting only two; I may consider staggering a few of them as well. These will eventually be planted probably together, and trellised to grow vertically.

Beet, chicago red hybrid: (Burpee) '09. These are the funniest looking seeds I've ever met -- they seriously look like grape-nuts. These can be planted very close together, so I may stagger and grow more than the three I already planted. I don't have a single food recipe for beets, but I know they can be used for dye, and it's not like I can't get more seeds if I want to! I may put them in a larger planter along with other root veg like carrots, parsnips, and the like.

Broccoli, barbados hybrid: (Ferry-Morse) '09. I did not get a lot of seeds in this packet, but both the ones I planted have sprouted. I'm thinking I want to grow more now; plant two seeds per pellet (I have 11 seeds left), maybe stagger them a bit, and freeze them once they're ready for harvest.

Carrot, Long Imperator: (Ferry-Morse) '08. I'll want to stagger more of these. They grow very close together and I can probably pack a ton of them in a single pot along with a lot of the other root veg. I'll have to look up storage options, or just eat the darn things.

Celery, tall utah improved: (Ferry-Morse) '09. These can be frozen, or better yet just eaten right away. I started these a little late this year but it would be nice to stagger these another year. The seeds are new enough I can likely get away with it.

Chives: (Ferry-Morse) '06 (eek!). Perennial -- I shouldn't need to start these more than once. They can be continually-harvested, since they grow from the bottom up, and I can dry or freeze them for later use. They might get their own small pot with that in mind.

Cilantro/Coriander: (Ferry-Morse) '09. Annual, it's a kitchen herb.

Cucumber, Marketmore: (Ferry-Morse) '08. Trellis and train these suckers, and aside from salads I'll want to get some recipes that use these. They might get their own pot or clumped up with something else (maybe the pickle cucumbers?).

Cucumber, pickalot hybrid: (Burpee) '09. Two plants should pretty well keep me occupied (I hope), since they say they produce over a long period of time. They'll probably go in their own pot, maybe with the dill plants and maybe not. Pretty much every single cucumber that comes out of these plants will be turned into pickles, save the ones I'll seed-save.

Dill, fernleaf: (Ferry-Morse) '09. Annual. Two plants will hopefully be enough to keep up with the pickle cucumbers, and I can dry bits until the cucumbers are ready for pickling. If I've room I'll put 'em in with the cucumbers.

Mesclun gourmet greens mix: (Ferry-Morse) '07, '08. I'm going to give it its own planter and randomly sow seeds, adding some every couple of weeks to stagger the plants within the pot. I seriously have A LOT OF SEEDS. Depending on how much we use them I'll plant even more.

Onion, parade (green): (Burpee) '09. These will probably go in among the bigger onions and/or other root-type veg. I might add another four to the four I have now as a stagger, maybe more depending on how I end up preserving them. It's not like they'll take up much space!!

Onion, sweet spanish yellow utah: (Burpee) '08. I didn't realize when I got these that they would be TWO POUNDS EACH!! Haha. Six should hopefully do me for a spell, though I may stagger more (especially if I end up with room to do so).

Oregano: (Ferry-Morse) '09. Perennial, and so very tasty in a lot of foods.

Parsley, italian: (FM 09) It says biennial, but I may plant one every year anyway. I'll probably do a lot of drying, and use it in soups and the like.

Parsnip, harris model: (FM '09) I was so incredibly surprised the first time I had these, I've fallen completely in love with them. Some weird cross between a potato, an onion, and a carrot. I definitely want to stagger these for keeping. Supposedly they can be frozen, and I'll have to investigate that.

Pepper, banana: (FM 08) Two plants, just like the other hot peppers. I'll have to figure how to pickle these successfully, but using them on sandwiches, in chili, salsa, on pizza, and all kinds of things. These are probably my favorite pepper and I'm definitely saving seeds from these.

Pepper, bell green: (SS 4.09) Your standard green 'salad' bell pepper, I have a crapton of these seeds I saved from store-bought peppers. These are probably going to be quite a staple, and I could make some good, good friends by trading them once they're ready. I'll have to look up instructions on how to grow them and the other bells for best effect.

Pepper, bell red: (SS 4.09) They're the Angel's favorite kind of bell pepper, so I planted two for this year. Same goes for these that goes for the rest of the bells.

Pepper, bell orange: (SS 4.09) As many peppers as we have, some variety is nice; it also adds a bit of fun to food with the different colors.

Pepper, bell yellow: (SS 4.09) Same as with the other bells.

Pepper, bell sweet mix: (B 08) This is a mix of red, orange, yellow, white and purple peppers. We went for the mix just to get some variety; every single seed has been planted and we'll see what we end up with when they grow. We're going to be positively swimming in bell peppers. Any purple and white peppers that grow will be seed-saved and kept for future use (not like we won't save the others too, but still).

Pepper, jalapeno: (FM 08)(SS 4.09) A friend of mine has a recipe to pickle them. Two plants from the FM should keep me in jalapenos for quite some time. If both I have sprout, along with some of the other hot peppers, I might put them all close together.

Pepper, poblano: (SS 4.09) Mild, larger peppers; hopefully they can be preserved the same as a jalapeno.

Pumpkin, jack o' lantern: (FM 08) Mostly they're for Samhain; just the one plant should do, and it's probably going to take up a LOT OF SPACE. I'm pondering trying to finagle a way to just set it in-ground, despite the horrid soil we have.

Radish, icicle short top: (FM 08) I'm not a fan of radishes but apparently my husband is, so he gets them. I only have one planted now but I may stagger a bunch to use up some seeds (and they can be planted insanely close together).

Rosemary: (FM '09) It smells fantastic, it looks neat, it's an evergreen perennial, so two plants should do quite well for some time. Pruning them and drying what I don't use immediately will keep me in awesome-smelling stuff for a while.

Sage, broad leaf: (FM 09) Perennial herb for various seasonings. Smells great.

Spinach, teton hybrid (FM 06 07) See Mesclun for all the notes. It's also good for actual cooking, too.

Squash, burgess buttercup (acorn): (FM 09) One plant, same as the butternuts. These want a lot of room, so I'm debating how I want to plant them right now. I might go the route of the pumpkins and try planting it directly in the ground; otherwise I'll probably have to give it its own planter.

Squash, butternut waltham: (FM09) I haven't done anything with butternuts before, but I do know they can be a pain to peel. Supposedly frozen and canned works, but I'd rather see them get eaten. I'll have to see what recipes I like. Planting is the same as the other squashes.

Squash, Early white bush scallop: (FM 09) Decorative, pretty things that can be grilled. Supposedly they can be frozen or canned. We'll probably use some for decoration for Samhain. I need to find out if these can be DRIED and used as rattles!! Planting is the same as the other squashes.

Tarragon: (FM 09) Perennial kitchen herb, probably in a little pot or mixed in with a few other things.

Thyme: (FM 09) Perennial kitchen herb, with pretty flowers if we let it get that far. Frozen is supposedly a good preserving method. We'll have to keep an eye out, as the Angel is allergic to bees.

Tomato, roma VFN: (FM 07) This is my absolute favorite tomato, and I'll ideally have six plants. I'm going to can the CRAP out of these, so with luck I'll get good crops. I'm going to train these suckers pretty well on trellises and really watch them so I can get good yield. I'm hoping for two tomato plants per pot, and a companion basil to go with it.

Tomato, sweetie: (FM 09) These don't preserve as well as other tomatoes, so they suggest only fresh use. They'll go good insalads of various kinds, so i'm not very concerned about keeping them. That's what the romas are for! I'm planning for both in one pot, with a companion basil.

Zucchini, black beauty: (FM 09) Same as for the greyzinis, with a longer maturity time.

Zucchini, butterstick hybrid (yellow): (B 09) Same as for the greyzinis, and they have about the same maturity time.

Zucchini, greyzini (B 08) I love zucchini, particularly grilled (also steamed), and this should work great for summer. I'm not sure about the planting method just yet. They can be canned and frozen, so that'll help keep them well.

Plants!! We have plants!!

I've been babbling about this in my LiveJournal, but I figured it would be a smart thing to cross-post it here as well, mind you sans pictures.

For reference, I'm using a small 36-pellet mini-greenhouse starter and a larger 70-pellet mini-greenhouse. This means, ideally, I have 106 plants that need to go down. O.o

Okay. This is nuts.

It's been a week, right?

Well, it looks like as of today we have:
(If I don't say when we got the seeds, assume they were bought this year.)

Larger starter:

Six out of eleven carrots, roughly an inch tall. These are older seeds, so I don't expect them to all pop up at once. They'll most likely get their own pot and since they can grow so closely together I can probably stagger them very very effectively.

Three out of six onions, roughly an inch tall. Older seeds, but coming up well so far. These suckers are gonna be about two pounds each when they're done, so they're likely to have their own planter as well. I'm wishing I'd staggered them more, but since they're not sprouting at the same time hopefully they won't mature at the same time.

One out of six roma tomatoes, roughly two inches tall plus. They're older seeds, so I won't be surprised if they don't, only a bit disappointed. They're my favorite tomato plant and I do plan on getting trellises to grow them vertically.

One out of two pole beans just thinking about poking through. They should be harvestable over a period of time, and I really only planted two just because they can be easily stored, but I would LOVE to have both come up (again, these are older seeds much like most in the larger starter). I'll probably trellis these as well.

One icicle radish just poked through. We bought these last year for and we'll see how they go -- if he likes them, maybe we'll start a couple more. They've lasted this long, right?

One jack-o'-lantern pumpkin, at LEAST four inches tall. Even though we bought the seeds last year they sprang up in an instant. I have no idea where we're going to put the plant for its permanent home; we might be able to get away with a smaller pot and transfer it elsewhere. Right now the roots are already outgrowing the little starter. One of the sprouts fell over, so it's been nicked already; no need to thin this one anymore as it did it to itself.

One yellow zucchini, at LEAST four inches tall. Last year's seeds, I'm hoping the other comes up because they're fantastic for grilling.

Both dill, half an inch tall. This will be nice to go with the pickle cucumbers; I hope two dill plants will be enough considering I'll probably end up with A LOT OF PICKLES.

One tarragon, should be thinned eventually, half an inch tall. These seeds were soooooo tiny that I dropped in a bunch of them instead of just three, and pretty much all of them came up. Hah.

One out of two basil, maybe a quarter inch tall. These are very old seeds, so I'm glad any came up at all. Right now the amount of basil is greater than the tomatoes, so I'm not worried about not having enough to go around.

One sage, just starting to poke through. It'll be interesting to see how these progress.

Smaller starter:

One out of two red bell peppers, just starting to poke through. Seed-saved from store bought plants, I'm so insanely happy this one is coming up. I'll be positively ecstatic if both do. There weren't a lot of seeds from the one, but I have plenty left over.

One orange bell, maybe an inch tall. Since I only planted one of these, seed-saved, it's awesome that it's coming up. This one out of the three gave the most seeds.

One yellow bell, still thinking about poking through fully. I hope it makes it! This one was seed-saved as well, bought in a three-pack with a red and orange. This one of the three had the least number of seeds.

Four out of four green onions, an inch and a half tall. I can probably plant these at the edges of another pot and let them go crazy.

One lemon basil, maybe a half-inch tall. I really want to see what this one tastes like when it's finished coming up and I can nick a leaf off of it without worrying about it dying.

Two out of two basil, about an inch tall. So very very happy that this many seeds came up (same package as from the larger planter) and I love basil anyway.

Two out of two broccoli, two plus inches tall. They've all come up, and I'm giving serious thought to staggering the rest of the 11 remaining seeds in the packet just to use them all up in one year and give more crops (and more to save).

Two out of two cherry tomatoes, two inches tall. Cherries are fun snacks, and this will probably make a full pot (with basil!) to trellis and let go nuts.

Two out of two pickle cucumbers, at LEAST four inches tall. The roots are already spreading out of the starter, so I'll want to replant them soon and thin them. They'll harvest for a very long time, so I may be pickling for quite a while. I hope the dill grows just as fast!!

One black zucchini, at least four inches tall. Like most of the other squash/zucchinis they're huge and need to be thinned soon, and replanted.

One acorn squash, at least four inches tall. These were requested for this year, and I'm not sure how they'll taste. Probably pretty good, from what I hear. Needs to be thinned and replanted.

One butternut squash, at least four inches tall. All I remember is trying to peel one with an old, mostly worn-out peeler at SMF, and nearly giving myself blisters. Fun times with the folks I was working with, but ow. I haven't a clue what they'll be used in.

One white squash, at least four inches tall. Needs thinned and replanted. I love how they look, and they'll likely be ready in time for Samhain. I'll have to find out if these make good rattles when dried, and if so I'm totally there.

Three out of three beets, at least two or three inches tall. These should be thinned soon. I'm not familiar with the culinary use, but they should make fun yarn dye if I can get off my tush and do it when they come up. I'm pondering putting them in a planter with some other root veg, and possibly growing a few more. Did I mention the seeds look like grape-nuts cereal?

One thyme, half an inch tall. I planted a few extra of these seeds, and I'll want to thin it relatively soon. I'll probably stick it in a planter with some of the other common kitchen herbs; I doubt it'll grow faster than we can make decent use of it.

One oregano, just come up. I love oregano in a lot of things, I want to see how well this is gonna do.

I haven't seen any hot peppers yet -- poblano, jalapeno, or bananas. Parsnips, green peppers, celery, cucumbers, grey zucchini, rosemary, parsley, coriander, and chives haven't come up -- neither has any of the random mixed peppers. I'm hoping that's because they're older seeds and/or because I can't expect EVERYTHING to sprout instantly, right?

If we get the squashes replanted, we can put the lids back on the starter greenhouses, and hopefully that'll let the other seeds catch up to the overachievers!

What's in my yogurt today?

I have this thing about ingredients in my food. If I can't pronounce it right away, I'm skittish of it. Since I started paying attention to what's in my food, I've started actually looking up the ingredients in some of the things I eat. Out of curiosity, I looked up a few things.

Tricalcium phosphate: This has the nickname of 'bone ash'. It's in our bones and teeth, which makes it tolerable I suppose. The natural form of it is rather impure, so I suspect the form I'm eating right now (om nom nom) is slightly processed. Eh, I can deal with that.

Beet juice concentrate: That's the pink coloring. Oh my god it's not artificial. That makes me kind of happy. I can't recall the exact effects or suspected effects of artificial colors, but honestly, who cares what color it is? It's food. It all ends up the same color in the end, and that crap's got to end up SOMEwhere. If they're gonna fake-color it, the least they can do is use a natural coloring.

Vitamin A acetate: I know what Vita-A is. The acetate part got me, but I couldn't really find much information on why it's got that in the name. This is curious.

Modified corn starch: A thickening agent. Makes it less runny, I'd imagine, but where's the 'modified' part come from?

High fructose corn syrup: Boy. You know, this one's such a massive one it probably deserves its own entry. Suffice it to say that in the limited quantities I probably consume (lots of natural and from-scratch products means everything I eat doesn't have it) I'm probably okay, but it would be nice to NOT be eating something that requires that much processing.

I'd rather stick with my organic brand, but since this stuff was on sale and I had coupons for it (yay doubling of coupons), I was okay with it.

The cup is #5 plastic, which IS NOW RECYCLABLE IN MY AREA! Thank the gods for that -- because this is one of those brands that's narrower on TOP than on the bottom, precluding the possibility of using it for seed planting like I do for the other cups I get. Bah.